TorakPoisonerFAQ

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As someone who spent close to 6,900 gold playing a poisoner, I may not know it all but I'm definitely going to help you save some experimentation. If you've got any specific requests, just let me know and I'll add them in.

Race Options[edit]

Normally I would go over any race but I'm going to just summarize this part - it's not really that important. Having a higher intelligence for skill spamming is nice since it has a price tag (and you'll want to spam for a few specific things which I'll go into) but it's not necessary. I played a felar because I liked having the spear for tanking (it spins actually a lot), the extra health, and Speardance edge (extra spin and pierce causes bleeding). Not having a dual wielded weapon beyond claws didn't give me a problem.....if any thief was to be a felar, I think a poisoner is about the best option. You don't need an extra hand to do "inhaled" application either (so wearing a spear is fine). Having a higher strength would definitely be nice though - plan on wearing at least one hundred pounds for your ingredients. I also was a villager so I didn't have preps for potions/scrolls which cut down on my weight needed.

Poisoner Basics[edit]

 Level 10: envenom                   8       8               None
 Level 12: apply                     14      22              envenom
 Level 12: concoct poison            0       22              apply
 Level 12: food poison               0       22              apply
 Level 12: emetic poison             0       22              apply
 Level 14: concoct antidote          2       24              emetic poison
 Level 14: drink poison              4       28              concoct antidote
 Level 17: inhaled poison            4       32              drink poison
 Level 19: knock-out poison          4       36              inhaled poison
 Level 23: weapon poison             4       40              knock-out poison
 Level 23: neurological poison       4       44              weapon poison
 Level 30: fear poison               4       48              neurological poison
 Level 33: contact poison            4       52              fear poison
 Level 35: weapon nick               4       56              contact poison
 Level 36: mind control poison       4       60              weapon nick
 Level 40: forgiving cruor           1       61              mind control poison
 Level 42: grenade missile           2       63              forgiving cruor

So first off, just a basic review of the tree - it's expensive...actually I think it's the most expensive thief path. What's this mean to you? That branching out is difficult if you want to lose the goodies at the end....but more on that in a bit.

Small sidetrack for edges......I would highly recommend that you start as a poisoner - working on skills is a lot easier earlier on as a poisoner because working on stuff is relevant to your ingredient level. Meaning if you spam at 42 with level 5 ingredients, it'll take a LOT longer than if you had just done it at level 19. It is a lot harder to gather gold at that level for some people but if you're resourceful enough it's not that bad (I had Spymaster, 300 gold, at level 18 - just took a few hours of farming a certain chest). With that said there are a few things you'll want to practice immediately - concoct poison, inhaled poison, and apply. I'd say stop at level 19 and spam them all three above 90% using the cheapest knock-out ingredient (at the bottom of this page). Why? Concoct poison skill once it's at 90% will let you mix poisons faster. The lag without this is pretty crappy but once it's past the 90% barrier it's not that bad. Inhaled poison you want up because you want to take Conserve Ingredients edge immediately - it fires about 25% of the time and it'll save you a HUGE amount of gold so get it first. Lastly you want apply up because it's the equivalent to your "blackjack" skill - if this fails, you fail apply the poison which means you're in combat and not facing a sleeping opponent. Also the Blender edges seem to just add +level to your final vial. Nice if you need it since you're out-leveled but usually most ingredients will work fine without it. I could see it's uses though if you're relying on weapon poison to apply.

Envenom is great for any path since it turns weapons to poisonous damage (can do it on two weapons at level 42 before they wear off) - so you get past physical resistances and can poison them. Works great on metal-vulnerability weapons that usually suck (jeweled dagger, dagger of the ferret, tiny iron, etc).

Beyond that your strongest early kill skill is at level 23 - neurological poison. Weapon poison is pretty hard to guess when it'll land but needless to say it's definitely dexterity based. If you have a high dexterity and they don't, you're more likely to land it earlier in a fight. Neurological poison is extremely under-rated in getting kills because it's effect don't take immediately but settle in after awhile. For example, while under the effect you can fail any command, you can randomnly get "frozen" for 3+ rounds, all your walking directions are randomized, you can't rest/sit/sleep, and that's just the basics of it. The random direction is *huge* for killing people who can't teleport or word. For example, I was fighting a dwarf shaman at the good Altar in Galadon - I had stolen all his teleport potions so he was trying to just run....but he couldn't because he was at the healer. Any time he walked, he'd randomly pick a direction (including into walls or guildguards) and never get out. It took awhile to kill him since he was flying but needless to say he died after walking fleeing about 20+ times and he could never even make it to the High road. Don't forget you can "look" at a weapon to see it's poison application as a poisoner.

Next is fear poison - the ultimate raid tool. Most thieves can have problems defending or raiding because they don't have the element of surprise but fear poison throws that all out. When feared, you lose any ability to do a targeted command (no murder, cast sleep, etc), you can't rest/sit/sleep, you will randomly yell out and run in different directions, throw down your weapon, and any damage can cause you to flee (assuming not lagged). So let's say someone is retrieving - so you land fear poison (which can last 20+ hours)...suddenly your opponent can't fight you unless they have an area attack and even if they do, they'll flee once you hit back. Maybe they're sitting at the inner guardians? They'll randomly run out and you can grab them when they do. Maybe you're defending against horrible odds....just land a fear poison on their tank and he can't fight the outer because any damage and they flee. Fear is extremely "annoying" to some but in the right hands it can be an extremely nasty killing tool. Don't forget you can apply all these poisons to your cabal mates as well.

Weapon nick honestly sucks and should be reviewed as a last chance attempt. Sometimes this is your only chance of landing neurological reliably but again, don't rely on it. It gives you about 90% chance to poison them if it hits, which doesn't always (again, think it's dexterity based), and it's two rounds of lag for a "wound". I had better luck just using sucker hit later on (was full poison and partial thug) since it did reliable damage, it was one round of lag in which the poison could land, and if they fled it was easier to chase. It could just be my memory but I think weapon poison landed a lot more on command-type damage (backstab, sucker hit, pierce, etc) than normal combat rounds.

Mind control poison is the wildcard - it let's you pull off some very fun things. You can cause them to eat nasty pills, you can force them to wear that demon-headed pendant laced with emetic poison (or cursed items like the braided crystal), you can force shifters to revert, you can cause cause them to "throwdown" their weapons, you can regear super easily (suggest remove X), or you can wait and have them get "forget" effects. Landing mind control with inhaled doesn't start combat and is 1-round lag to you both so you can usually land the next command guaranteed. Right now you can't use inhaled mind control on a knocked out or even sleeping target - until thats fixed, I wouldn't bother with it too much. It's easily one of the best tools of the class but until they fix it, it kinda sucks for practical reasons.

Lastly is forgiving cruor and grenades - Forgiving cruor helps you resist your own grenades but honestly I had three grenades explode on me and I got all three effects with 90% cruor, so don't believe it...and antidotes are extremely easy to make and use. It did help against poisonous damage though and poison effects (fight someone with an envenomed weapon and it goes up reaaal quick). Grenades is a love+hate relationship. I love the idea but the actual implementation is crap. The damage is extremely low for the level and 2-round lag (most I got was a DEVAS), you'll hit anyone in the room whose not friendly (not just who you're fighting...bringing in random mobs and people can SUCK), and it'll more than likely never land the effect. I'd say maybe 10% success rate at most...and if you're fighting the poison resistant races, poison immune forms, poison resisted people (purity of blood, blood of the questy dude, phylactery, etc) then you might as well not even bother. I had better luck just fleeing and applying inhaled on someone instead of a grenade. They're also a bitch to get right with aliases because vials and grenades have all the exact same keywords besides grenade. Meaning if you want a grenade it's "launch 'black grenade'" but applying it by inhaled with "apply 'black vial'" will try and use the grenade. To get around this I kept grenades in my bag but obviously it's not efficient with commands. Yeah it'd be nice if you landed emetic/fear on a group, but unless you've got someone else in front you'd die before it really got important anyways.....if it actually worked on 3 people at once I'd say go play the Lottery. You can also use trap ingredients for grenades but it just changes the damage type and maybe adds a little damage - if you're trying to win by doing 2-round commands with no lag, you're not playing the thief right. 2 sucker hits was more damage and a lot safer to do.

Cross training[edit]

It really depends on the route you want to go but I would highly suggest being a thug - parting block can help tremendously since usually your target wants out immediately. Kidney shot is just another -strength, I already explained why sucker hit is nice (also Boogeyman edge). Cheap shot would be a great addition as well but good luck getting it if you want to be a full poisoner.....any branching out is extremely hard to mix with a poisoner. So unless you plan on taking Devious Versatility a lot (which has a base requirement of immortal-given experience and is more expensive than Ehren Soul), you might want to figure out what you really want to do. If I had to redo it all I'd probably stop at fear poison, get cheapshot, move up to parting block, then go up as you want in either basic skills (gentle walk is nice for getting ingredients) or max out poisoner or thug. There's supposedly a decent edge from weaponnick+gut but I kind of hate using weaponnick so it'd be an extra and not something to aim for.

Another option would be to go for a binder - considering your knock-out is the longest of all thieves, it wouldn't be a bad choice. Things like applying mind control poison on someone bound would be kinda funny considering they'd get a "forget" affect after a bit which would REALLY make you deadly....that and they could sit bound with emetic poisons as their mana/movement all drained out. Something to think about.

Also I highly don't think joining Voralian guild is required - at higher levels most of those ingredients suck in comparison to Evermoon/Settlement/Hillcrest options. It's a sucky walk to Evermoon but I didn't miss the Voralian guild. In the end I usually used settlement ooze, evermoon for neuro/emetic/KO and formaldehyde (just adds level to the vial), and either hillcrest for mind control berries (expensive) or emetic+fear combo to mix it.

Ingredients[edit]

I'm divulging this information mostly since I spent a lot of time on it and think it should be shared, but also because it's not that hard to figure it out. It was decided that ingredients was NOT questy so this is fair game. Add as you see fit. I know I'm missing a few (like sulfur near red dragon) but the majority of what you need is here. There's a few in the wiki items page but I never saw them. If you have grand ideas to mass free ingredients, don't. You'll be lucky to get more than one a repop and the time you spend waiting on that you could easily kill something, sell the items, and buy five times the ingredients. Use the Docks ingredient for spamming.

If you've got any questions, just ask and I'll try and answer. I ended Sarux with 4 edges (including Devious Versatility) and full poisoner path, thug up to sucker hit and general skills of plant (for suggesting) and greaseweapon (super nice since your combat ability 1on1 sucks).

------recipe--------
EMETIC + FEAR = MIND
EMETIC + NEURO = FEAR
EMETIC + KO = NEURO
EMETIC + EMETIC = KO

=======Hamsah Docks
[ 5   144] a packet of powdered opium tied with a red ribbon (poison ingredient) --- KNOCKOUT
======Voralian
[20   494] a clump of mashed scorpion stingers        (poison ingredient)  --- KNOCKOUT
[20  4524] a vial of very strong smelling formaldehyde (poison ingredient) --- just adds +levels
[20  1794] a vial of strong smelling formaldehyde     (poison ingredient) --- just adds +levels
[32  2600] a paste of basilisk blood and mold         (poison ingredient)
[20   234] a bag of swamproot                         (poison ingredient)    ---- EMETIC
[20   754] a flask of potent snake venom              (poison ingredient)  ------- NEURO
======Hillcrest
[40  9875] a bunch of white berries with black fungus (poison ingredient) ---- MIND
[30  1125] a bunch of white berries                   (poison ingredient) --- FEAR
[25   925] a bunch of red berries                     (poison ingredient)  ---- NEURO
[20   750] a bunch of violet berries                  (poison ingredient) ---- KO
[15   500] a bunch of green berries                   (poison ingredient)  ---- KO
[10   375] a bunch of blue berries                    (poison ingredient) ---- EMETIC
======Haunted Wood
[11   125] a bright purple mushroom                   (poison ingredient) ------ EMETIC
[13   750] a bright red mushroom                      (poison ingredient)  ------ EMETIC
[15  1000] a bright blue mushroom                     (poison ingredient)
[12   375] a bright green mushroom                    (poison ingredient) ------- EMETIC
[31   875] a jagged black oozing shelf mushroom       (poison ingredient) ------ EMETIC
=======Imperial Lands
[20  1200] a vial of rattlesnake venom                (poison ingredient) ---- KO
[16   900] a paste made from hemlock                  (poison ingredient)  ---- KO
[12   420] the droppings of a rat                     (poison ingredient)   ----- EMETIC
=======Evermoon
[20  3100] a vial of very strong smelling formaldehyde (poison ingredient)
[20  1350] a vial of strong smelling formaldehyde     (poison ingredient)
[32   725] a glass tube marked with an 'X'            (poison ingredient) --- NEURO
[32   350] a handful of dark green mushrooms          (poison ingredient)  --- EMETIC
[32   475] a vial with bright red ichor               (poison ingredient)   --- KO
=======Seantryn
Rogues hiding right off Nightshade road and plaza
You get a tiny vial of crudely prepared blowfish toxin from the corpse of the rogue.  --- EMETIC
======Dagdan
[ 1   172] a tiny pouch of dust                       (poison ingredient) ---- EMETIC
=======Past
Jail in the past
You peek at the inventory:
     some ground, caustic slimeweed
     the feces of an orc
Morkaih the Bandit has a few scratches. 

This hissing black acid even sizzles and pops on the surface of this cloth.
It was said that if one could capture the spittle from a dragon, just before
it touched the ground, it would retain its dangerous and potent properties.

Some ground, caustic slimeweed is a poison ingredient, made of cloth, and weighs 0 pounds 15 ounces. --- LEVEL 40 neuro
======Arham
Crony
Gathered from the poisonous marshes of the Barovian swamps, this plant
extract is locally renowned as a potent toxin when prepared correctly. The
thick greenish-black liquid has been contained in a small cylindrical vial,
capped with a tall cork stopper. The liquid lazily bubbles, the popping
bubbles emitting a toxic green gas that swirls inside the vial.

A vial of barovian marsh venom is a poison ingredient, made of glass, and weighs 0 pounds 14 ounces. ---- LEVEL 45 FEAR

Jack
This thin, cylindrical glass vial contains a cloudy viscous fluid with a
slightly pink hue. A wax thick wax seal has been places over the smooth top,
containing the poison. A few stray chunks of jellyfish float in the fluid,
the iridescent material stabilized by the thick liquid.

A vial of crudely prepared jellyfish toxin is a poison ingredient, made of glass, and weighs 0 pounds 10 ounces. ---- LEVEL 25 KNOCKOUT
======Blackwood Swamp
Arial thief
This glass vial contains some sort of red liquid within. The liquid within is 
odorless and is very thick. Upon closer examination of the liquid you realize
it is some sort of sap.

A vial of red sap is a poison ingredient, made of glass, and weighs 0 pounds 3 ounces. --- KNOCKOUT
======South Darien
[30  1200] a vial of acrid-smelling ooze              (poison ingredient) -- fear

You get a handful of yellow moss from a large boulder.

Generally only found within the fissures of rocks and boulders, this 
moss is rumored to be extremely toxic, the reaction it has with the 
body often leading to illness.

A handful of yellow moss is a poison ingredient, made of plant, and weighs 0 pounds 5 ounces.  - KNOCK-OUT
======North of Voralian

A dark-elven scout is in perfect health.
You peek at the inventory:
     dried cavefisher dung

Dried for quite some time, this rather foul powder is the excrement of a
cavefisher, the notorious hunter of the Underdark.  Dried naturally, it is
virtually odorless, even though it is most likely all that remains of some
foolish adventurer.  Often collected as a coating for weaponry, it is 
rumored to be a potent poison of the Underdark.

Dried cavefisher dung is a poison ingredient, made of carrion, and weighs 0 pounds 2 ounces.  --- LEVEL 25 KNOCK-OUT
======Ruins of Delar-tol
Basilisk
Known for growing most commonly around graveyards, the corpsebloom grows most
readily near the dead. Resembling a dying white lily, the corpsebloom attracts
insects with its scent. Thoroughly poisonous, once corpseblooms take root they
often kill animals trying to eat them, the seeds growing in the dead host.

It is made of plant and weighs 1 pounds 5 ounces. ---- LEVEL 38 ?
======Sirine Witch
----------------------------------------
This poison ingredient, a giant severed male member can be referred to as 'giant severed male member'.
It is worth 120 copper, and is of the 14th level of power.
It is made of flesh and weighs 1 pounds 13 ounces.

l member
This recently severed male member must have come from a giant, given
the...size.  Also known as a 'todger' among some of the races, the
male-hating sirine probably have many of these, stolen from the
various male sailors who ply the oceans of Thera.  It probably isn't
good for much of anything.
A giant severed male member is a poison ingredient, made of flesh, and weighs 1 pounds 13 ounces.


======Unidentified or not specific location found
Poisonous Millipedes: Vale of Veran in a stump (emetic) 
Sulfurous Ash: Red Dragon (knock-out) 
Torn Entrails: Goblin Shaman (emetic) 
Small bag filled with bone dust: Twilight Mansion (knock-out) 
Bloody eye of an Aurumvorax: High Lord's Keep (neurological) 
Small Packet of Herbs: Galadon Sewers (emetic)
Bark: Blackwater Swamp (emetic) 
Dried Bat Guano: Blackwater Swamp (emetic) 
Poison gland of a piscoloth: (mind-control)


Trewyn's Updates[edit]

I thought I'd update this FAQ a bit since some bugs have been fixed and it's been tweaked a tad since Torak wrote his.

First thing, if any of the following applies to you, don't waste your time with a poisoner.
A) You have no patience
B1) You don't know where to get high valued barter items
B2) You don't know how to sell items to keep money in your pocket
C) You don't know the areas of the MUD

Poisoners have lots of nasty tricks up their sleeves, but they are a real pain in the ass to play. The biggest pain in the ass is the money grind. But once you get a good circuit going you can collect ingredients while you hunt, if you know what to look for.

Also note that grenades blow up on you quite frequently. At least 1 in 10 will while making it. So you PROBABLY want to keep some neurological antidote on you if you plan on using those types of grenades.

You can apply poisons to sleeping victims. Applying a non-sleep inhaled will trigger a sleep protection timer (so I'm told).

Weight is your biggest issue. I highly advise you take the strong back edge. Those extra 20 pounds will come in handy. Use heavy, easy to barter for ingredients for spam, use lightweight guild purchased ingredients when you go hunting.

My advise, join the Voralian guild. It has the cheapest and the lightest ingredients purchasable. But if you don't want to, Evermoon's are comparable, and as long as you can kill the red dragon, you'll have access to a reliable supply of ingredients without needing to have a single coin on your person. If you can't kill the red dragon, backstab the vendors in Hamsah after you sell as much of the clothes/pearls/wands and things to them as you can. Typically I could only kill the clothing vendor and sell all I had to them. Occasionally I had enough HP left over to get the trinket vendor east of them. Either way, this is a lowbie technique that will only net you 6-9k which isn't going to buy you a lot. A typical splurge will cost you 12-30k depending on what ingredient you are buying and where.

BIG NOTE: Before ranking passed level 10, go to Blackclaw and buy the mortar and pestle. It will add 5% to your concoct antidote and concoct poison skills which in turn will make it faster. Keep it with you until you get your skills above 90%.

To make poisons you basically have to add different ingredients to get what you want. You can make knock-out poison from any two non-weak emetics. You can make neurological by combining three non-weak emetics, a knock-out and an emetic, or a knock-out and a weak-knock out. Fear poison and mind control get more complicated, but work on the same idea. You'll find it's not a perfect system, but it works as long as you don't mix ingredients from different guilds.

The list of noteworthy Weaks are Tiny Dust, Ooze from the Sewers, and Opium from the Docks.

Trewyn's Ingredient List For Spam and Practice[edit]

Emetic[edit]

Svirf Peddler in Dagdan sells tiny dust for about 100 coppers. VERY good for spamming up grenade.
Oozes in the sewers by the unkempt mage have ooze that makes emetic. 8 - 10 plus what ever is on the ground per trip.
Jacob the Taint in the jade forest will trade for snail droppings. Wanted friendly, too
Marshweed from S'zweh warriors in Ysigrath

Knock-Out[edit]

Opiums in docks of hamsah, 200 coppers, they are excellent for practicing knock-out.
There is no wanted-friendly peddler of knock-out poison that I know about.
Black Dragon Spittle - Ysigrath

Neurological[edit]

Egwetha (Spider Lady south of Galadon) will barter petals that weigh 3 pounds that make neurological poison, this is also the best deal for practicing
Jacob in the Jade Forest trades for jade mushroom paste that is identicle to the petals Egwetha sells
All poisoner guilds sell a neurological poison ingredient for around 700 - 1000 coins.

Fear[edit]

Use a petal or paste and combine with Opium to make fear poison.
Otherwise, use a petal or paste and combine with any emetic that ISN'T ooze or tiny dust. Jacob's snail droppings are good.
White Berries from Evermoon can be used to make fear grenades for 1100 coppers
Jack has some barovian marsh venom that makes fear poison. (This is a change from Torak's info)

Mind-Control[edit]

Use a petal and a paste to make mind-control. This is the best way to practice this. Otherwise use neurological and the knock-out ingredient from what ever guild you choose. But a fair warning, mixing guilds won't always make the recipe's work out like you think. For example, snake venom and hillcrest's knock out gave me fear poison.

Being Wanted[edit]

At first you come to rely on the guilds, but after your first stint as a wanted criminal, the poisoner path really gets easier as you find cheaper and more efficient ways to harvest ingredients.

Emetics[edit]

Ooze and Snail Droppings from Jacob
Frog Eggs - Near the Ruined Keep by the poison frogs. It's in a log. It's kind of heavy. (Don't ask me how I found this, it was pure accident a LONG time ago)
Marshweed in Ysigrath - Usually a bunch on the ground

Knock-Out[edit]

This is the biggest problem for wanted folks. Either get someone to buy you a lot of opium, or use this list!
Sulfrous Ash - Red Dragon
Vial of Sap - Blackwater
Toxic Spittle of a Black Dragon - Ysigrath (usually a bunch here since people tend to leave it on the ground)

If you can't get the above two and you're hard up, there's some mold or dust in a boulder south of the Dairein Settlement. It's heavy and there's only one. Otherwise you can try mixing droppings, ooze, and dust and see if that's enough of a bump to make knock-out. Or you can get as many different kinds of emetics and hope you can find a recipe to make knock-out.

Neurological[edit]

Corpsebloom Petals - Egwetha south of Galadon
Jade Mushroom Paste - Jacob in the Jade Forest

Fear[edit]

Barovian Marshvenom - Jack (This is a change since the area update)
Phase Spider Venom - Spiderhaunt (only on some phase spiders)

Mind-Control[edit]

I don't know anything for fact. But the only heresay I know about is the gland of a piscoloth. I leave it up to you to find it though.

Grenades - YAY![edit]

Grenades can only be made from ONE ingredient. It might be a bug, but it only takes the first in the list.
Grenades can blow up and infect the whole room, but this only happened once for me. I'd say the chance is like 1 in 500 It didn't start combat the time I saw it.
Grenades made from poisons do what the poisons do. Typically a *** DEMOLISH *** in damage
Grenades made from poison ingredients do poison damage. Grenades made from trap ingredients don't.
Grenades can blow up in your face while you are making them.
Grenades can blow up on you if you start combat by throwing them. It will infect you and will NOT start combat

Grenades from Trap Ingredients[edit]

Three types of attacks that I noticed
Blunt thingy, spiraling axe, and wrath/divine power (I got both out of the same ingredient, or at least similiar looking ones)

Damage Trap Salesman[edit]

Egwetha sells a jar, fairly cheap
Mage tower in Tir-Talath
Blackclaw thief guild
Thief guild in Craagstone

*** This is where the BEST grenade ingredient is. The shards of crystal, 3500 coppers, but it makes a divine power/wrath bomb 

Non-Salesmen/Wanted Friendly[edit]

Spearhead in Blackclaw
There's something in the Oryx Steppes (I think)
Jar from Egwetha